Author Topic: CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?  (Read 1631 times)

Rick - Rhapsody

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CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?
« on: October 16, 2016, 02:59:47 PM »
Hello everyone!

My name is Rick. I'm new to the forum and back in May bought a CSY 33 Rhapsody. Formerly owned by Dag Hansson (who I've spoken to) who has a lot of posts and discussions in this forum.

When I went to haul out a few weeks ago I noticed a fair amount of small gelcoat blisters. I decided to sand off all bottom paint which revealed that the boat was covered in very small 1/4' size blisters with 3 or 4 bigger ones. What I've come find is known as boat pox.The boat was also tested with a moisture meter and found to be fairly wet inside. In order to fix this issue and boat pox properly I've decided to sand the bottom down until every small blister hole is open (gelcoat off) and then wait until the boat dries out (tested with moisture meter) then reseal it with barrier coats.

The boat was tested by a surveyor for structural integrity with a phonetic hammer and was found to be structurally sound minus this little box area on the starboard side of the keel which the surveyor said sounded like delamination. (the port side also has a small box on it which tested negative for delamination). The box also had this streak of liquid seaping out of it. Surveyor suggested I grind the box area down until i find dry laminates then build up again. But he couldn't quite tell me the purpose of these two little boxes of the sides of the keel.

My question is... What the hell are those two little boxes? And does anyone have any suggestions for me?

I appreciate everyones help. Right now I am working and saving to hopefully next fall by able to sail Rhapsody far far away!

Rick


Soggy Geek

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Re: CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2016, 07:35:57 PM »
Hi Rick,

Welcome to the world of CSY Owners and welcome to the forum.  Have you asked Dag about that area?

I am wondering if it just might be where a support stand might have been at some point in time, if it's a square about 1 ft x 1ft, and if it's in an area where one might put a support stand.

The CSY's didn't have much layup problems--at least not like some boats we've seen around the same vintage--those who went to fire-proof resin I think was the major problem that caused structural cases of blistering and delamination.

We did a half-assed blister repair on Soggy Paws in 2002, but then in 2009, blisters were appearing again, and we were in a place where (a) it was very dry and (b) labor was cheap and (c) there was a guy who knew what he was doing.  So we had the whole bottom peeled and built back up.

We documented the process on our blog and our website:

http://svsoggypaws.blogspot.com/search/label/Blister%20Repair

http://svsoggypaws.com/hull.htm#blister_repair

Unfortunately, you will not find Hempel products (easily) in the US.  The US dealer only sells to big shipping companies.  But if you read through what we went through, you'll get a much better idea of the whole process.  And the idea that you CAN do it yourself if you have the time and not the money.  Key points are:

1.  Once you've ground out the blisters, you need to (daily) rinse them with fresh water until they quit oozing.  They are oozing a salty kind of acidy byproduct of the resin chemicals and the salt water.  If you don't get all this ooze out, you will still be getting moisture in the hull because the salt will be attracting moisture out of the air.  Also, keep your interior bilge dry!

2.  A dry environment is the best place to dry out your boat.  Florida in the summer is not very good, but if you can dry it over the winter, it's better.  The longer you have it out in the dry conditions, the better.  A two week dry period is a waste of time (that's what our guy told us at least).  We checked every couple of weeks with a moisture meter, all over the hull as it was drying.  We'd write the moisture reading on the hull each place it was checked, and then compare readings over time.  The numbers should be improving, or something's wrong!

3.  You have to get a pretty good build-up on the barrier coat (I forget the thickness that our expert told us, but it may be in our writeup).  West System epoxy could be used, but it is so thin that you have to use many many coats.  That's why we used the "coal tar epoxy"--it is a very thick epoxy.

4.  It's important to study the chemistry of the "system" you will use, to make sure you get it right... some layers need to be fully dry before applying the next layer, other layers MUST STILL BE WET when you apply the next layer, so that they chemically bind together.

5.  Don't trust the boatyard guys to do it right without supervision, no matter how much of an expert you have at the top, you still have low paid yard workers doing the work.  Even though our "expert" was there, and his guys had done the process before, we still caught them not mixing the epoxy in the right ratios, not stirring the stuff enough when applying, not letting it dry enough, or letting it dry too much, or applying it too thick or too thin.  Dave read all the labels on the cans, got the technical data sheets of the internet, and was watching them every step of the way.  If he had a question about what the workers were doing, he'd get George over to make sure it got done right.  When the job is over, and your bottom coat is peeling off in the water, is no time to say to yourself "I thought they were supposed to wait until that coat dried before they applied the next coat."  (true story, this happens occasionally).  Trying to get a boatyard to make good on a crappy job after it is finished and you've paid your bill is very difficult.

The CSY 33 is a great boat--good luck with the job and enjoy cruising in Rhapsody.  I know Dag is happy to have his boat in the hands of someone who will actually cruise her.

Sherry
Soggy Paws the CSY has been sold but not forgotten!
http://svsoggypaws.com/CSY/

Mike Zofchak

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Re: CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 08:48:11 AM »
Hello Rick and Welcome,

It is funny you are writing this now… I just had the entire bottom of my 44WO sandblasted last week to remove 30 plus years of bottom paint. I found the exact same thing you have (boat pox) as well as the “boxes” on the keel. I have the deep draft model and my keel has two (2) of theses on both sides of the keel. I had planned on getting on here to ask the exact same question.

I will get the some pictures next time I am at the boat.

I would like to discuss your plan of attack with you sometime.
Capt. Mike Zofchak
Land Locked S/V Buckeye Queen

Rick - Rhapsody

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Re: CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 07:47:08 PM »
Thank you guys for the quick reply's and support.

Dag actually came by the yard and saw it as is. He had never seen those two little box area's on the keel since it hadn't had all the bottom paint removed in what seems like a very long time. It's quite a mystery.

Funny that you are having the same issue Mike. Is yours also leaking from the boxes on the keel? I suppose if it is on both boat it must be a CSY thing but as much as I've tried to google it and ask around no one can give me a straight answer. I'm tempted to open it up completely but will probably just grind in and around the boxes till I see good glass then build back up again. Let me know what you plan on doing! And some pics would be great!

And Sherry thank you for those links! Not only are they very useful it seems like you guys have great cruising plans. Would be great to meet up someday. I'm going to purchase a moisture meter so I can keep track. Unfortunately I don't have time to be at the yard because of work except for weekends. So my rinsing and scrubbing might be a little bit more limited, but I know the more the better. As far as products go I'm still trying to figure that out. Good info on West System because that was definitely one I was considering but not if 20 coats is needed. Have you heard any reviews on Interlux Interprotect? I certainly don't want to half ass the job but I was budgeting between $1500 and $2000 on materials.

Does Soggy Paws and a facebook page? Would be great to follow your adventures.

Thanks again!

Rick

Rhapsody

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Re: CSY 33 Rhapsody - Keel Inspection or Conversion Port?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 09:36:13 PM »
Hat off to Rick, he peeled the bottom and built up a new layer.
As good as new now.
Never had delamination problems when I owned Rhapsody, had a few mini-blisters but it was in the gelcoat only. My surveyor was not concerned amd when I sold Rhapsody to Andrew in May 2013, his surveyor did not find any delamination either, clean bill of health, bottom and boat.
Age finally caught up and Rick, the 6th owner of Rhapsody, 1979 CSY 33, hull #19 did the right thing putting on a new bottom.