Author Topic: Rudder Packing Gland  (Read 6872 times)

Soggy Geek

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
    • View Profile
    • Cruise Around the World with Soggy Paws
  • Boat Type: CSY 44 WT
  • Boat Name: Soggy Paws
Rudder Packing Gland
« on: October 23, 2013, 04:30:53 PM »
This message was originally posted by new CSY Forum member Paul Thurman.  In trying to move it from the "Forum Information and Problems" to this part of the forum, I somehow deleted it.  

Here is Paul's original post:

Hello folks,
I have just become the proud owner of a CSY 44 ( Alpha) based in Lefkas , Greece.

I am just completing a few jobs getting her ready for the spring. I have left her in the water with the view of using her over the summer. The inspection highlighted a very slight drop coming from the rudder packing box. I intend to re-pack the rudder shaft by lifting her clear of the water and renewing the packing.

The existing fitting is very green , it looks like it as been dripping for some time . Does anybody have any detail , drawings etc of the rudder gland , what's the best material to pack it with ?.

If the gland is replaced what is the best gland to use in its place ?

Cheers, safe sailing

Paul Thurman

Please welcome Paul to the CSY Owners forum and help him out with his problem.
Soggy Paws the CSY has been sold but not forgotten!
http://svsoggypaws.com/CSY/

Stephen Harnett

  • Guest
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 07:26:55 PM »
Hi,

I'm in the same boat as Paul. Any information about the rudder packing gland would be much appreciated.

cheers,

Steve

Soggy Paws

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
    • View Profile
    • Cruising with Soggy Paws
  • Boat Type: CSY 44 WT
  • Boat Name: Soggy Paws
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 08:01:09 PM »
Paul/Stephen,

Both the rudder and shaft stuffing box units are very high quality made of bronze by Buck Algonquin.  You will find them still sold through major marine dealers including Lewis Marine in Florida.  They are old technology but have the benefit of always working and never need repair.

I have tried most of the packing materials and found that the modern GFO packing is the best.  It is available at many marine dealers and is reasonably priced, unlike some other similar products.  Mine has been in service now for 7 years and with a slight adjustment about every year there are no leaks.

If you are using a 1.5" shaft and a 2" rudder post the correct sizes are 3/16" for the shaft and 5/16" for the rudder.  That is worth checking, though, before you buy.

Dave
CSY 44 Walkthru #35, Soggy Paws
Soggy Paws the CSY has been SOLD
http://svsoggypaws.com/CSY/For_Sale.htm

Stephen Harnett

  • Guest
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 08:26:45 PM »
Many thanks Dave.

Cheers,

Steve

Gypsy Rose

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 11:02:56 AM »
Paul;
I've used Teflon impregnated flax packing for years with good results. If I'm not mistaken, the size is 1/4" or 5/16" and you need at least three wraps with the joints offset a minimum of 30 degrees. More wraps are better.
The green is cuprous oxide/corrosion. Unless it is gross, ft's not a problem. Power wire brush the fitting and check the cleaned surface. If it's not heavily pitted, it's OK.

Stephen Harnett

  • Guest
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 06:13:08 PM »
Hi Steven,

thanks for the further information. My mind has become somewhat focused on this issue in the last day or so as the rate of flow has increased beyond a comfortable level,  :ohmy:

Looking at the packing gland (PG), I see a vertical threaded tube with a collar over it, from which the rudder post emerges. I presume the packing material is inside the collar and that tightening the collar increases the pressure on the packing and reducing the ability of water to enter? Is this likely to work, even if just temporarily?

The collar appears to have two different sized surfaces for getting a spanner/wrench onto. Is this a locking nut type arrangement? Mine is pretty corroded (see image attached and in dropbox in the Rudder Packing Gland directory) so it might be hard to see if there are two "collars" or one.

Being completely new to this any further information would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve

RHoodJr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 06:41:17 PM »
Steve,

The locking nut is the thin nut under the collar.  I had a similar situation with our shaft log.  It was corroded and wouldn't budge.  I was using a pipe wrench and a sink spanner wrench on the nuts. I put some PB blaster on the the threads and let it do it's thing over night and tried again the next day.  I was still unable to break the lock nut loose.  I then used a hammer and started to tap on the flat sides of the nuts at the outside edges in the direction of turning I wanted them to go and it broke them free.  I was then able to use the wrenches and finish the job.  I made sure I cleaned and lubed the threads real well before I put it all back together.

Hope this helps a little and have a Happy New Year!

Soggy Paws

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
    • View Profile
    • Cruising with Soggy Paws
  • Boat Type: CSY 44 WT
  • Boat Name: Soggy Paws
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2013, 08:32:41 PM »
Steve,

Looking at your pic it looks like you have plenty of room to work on this.  The thin nut on the right is the lock nut.  Once you have them loose screw the lock nut a couple of turns away from big nut.  Then screw packing in toward the lock nut until it is just snug but not gorilla tight.  If that doesn't stop the leak then screw it down a bit more until the leak stops.  Then tighten the lock nut.

Then run the boat in forward at cruise speed for a half hour or so and monitor the temperature of the packing nut and the amount of drip closely.  If it gets hotter than just warm it may be too tight.  If you are using the old flax packing it should drip about one drop every 10 seconds.  If using modern GFO there should be no dripping.  So you want loosen or tighten appropriately so that the drip matches your packing instructions, but not so tight that the packing nut gets hot and stays that way.

So for now try tightening the lock nut and see what happens.  It may work temporarily and then you can change out the packing next time you haul.

Good luck,

Dave
CSY 44 Walkthru #35, Soggy Paws
Soggy Paws the CSY has been SOLD
http://svsoggypaws.com/CSY/For_Sale.htm

Stephen Harnett

  • Guest
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2014, 07:44:38 PM »
Thanks David & Richard, the PG is now dry.

THURMAN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 11:38:32 AM »
Hello everybody,
                Since my last post regarding the rudder packing the leaks seems to have nearly stopped , I put this down to Alpha being out of the water for a number of months , I had her put in to the briny to complete water trials , perhaps the packing had dried OUT ???.
I will repack the gland next winter lift out so that I know its ok.

Everything else is fine a few modifications currently underway.

Alpha has a Webasto WD32 12v hot air heating system , this hadn't been used for 13 years , needs complete overall . I have plans wiring diagrams and know the knowledge to pass on if any one else needs help.

Thanks for all the help regarding packing and materials , it will be a great help.
Regards,
Paul Thurman.

THURMAN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 11:42:34 AM »
Hello Stephen,
               Hope you sorted your gland out ( mate that doesn't sound right !!!) , mine seems to have sorted itself out , did you do the repacking in or out of the water ??.
Out would be easier but a lot more expensive. What size spanners did you use on the locking and gland nuts.

Regards,
Paul Thurman

Stephen Harnett

  • Guest
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 05:22:03 PM »
Hi Paul,

Gee that's a personal question...

I bought a couple of large pipe wrenches from the local hardware. Not an ideal tool as there is quite a bit of play and the jaws aren't completely parallel. Looking at the corrosion I was fearful that it would require a lot of force to loosen but turned out to be quite easy. Using Dave's advice I tightened it up with a couple of turns and that seemed to stop the flow completely. Since then I've used the boat a bit and the flow has restarted, but nowhere near as much. So my plan is to re-pack it next time its out of the water and re-tighten as required until then.

Cheers,

Steve

Matthew Balch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
  • Boat Type: CSY 44 W/O
  • Boat Name: Chilly Pepper
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 06:20:39 PM »
It's been my experience that the packing material will rot when the boat is hauled out for a few days.  It is just fine to replace the packing while the boat is in the water.  The amount of water that comes into the boat while you are taking out the old packing and replacing it with new is de minimus.  You won't sink while you are doing the job, so there is no sense in putting the job off until the next haulout.

THURMAN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 12:33:57 PM »
Hello Steve,
            Have you any idea what the size of the nuts are on the rudder gland , that's the locking nut and end nut. My boats in Greece I live in the UK , I am going to make ( what I mean to say is a good friend will make them for me ) a couple of flat spanners to do the job during my next visit , hopefully in February 2014.

Regards,

Paul T.

THURMAN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Rudder Packing Gland
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 01:26:08 PM »
Hello everybody,
                 I have managed to obtain a couple of photographs showing the rudder gland for your comments.
[attachment=637]RudderGland1.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=638]RudderGland2.jpg[/attachment]