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Messages - Peter Rabbit

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1
Engines and Drive Train / New Cummins Install in Peter Rabbit is complete
« on: September 09, 2014, 01:49:49 PM »
Hi Dave, good to hear from you.  Yea it was lots of work but that was really my fault.  I tend to do many other things while on the primary project because of access to either enhance the boat or simply being paranoid.  Yes plan on being at the SSCA Nov 14-16.  Have it blocked out on the calendar already.  And since the fla west coast gam is in St Pete this year will be there as well.  Got you email well after your last departure.  when you get back I will bring those extra parts I have for the Perkins.  we can talk then!

2
BTW this is a tier 3 engine. the 4b3.3 cummins

3
The install is complete and now have about 75 hours on the engine.  Here is some data:  Burn rate is running .75 gallons per hour at 6.7 knots at 1800 rpm.  Stock CSY Prop was adjusted to 15.75  this gives me 2600 rpm.  gear is 2.57 to 1.  I install a 3 inch exhaust (that was interesting to say the least).  TAD recommends 2.5 or 3 inch.  I made a new muffler.  Looks similar to the stock one but fits the boat and new engine exhaust better -- 3 inch in and out.  I did not use the mixing elbow that came with the motor.  I had them ship me one that had a riser pipe built into it.  This coupled with the muffle design gives me 18 inch min distance between the water held in the muffler and the riser.  The engine with this prop and gear gives the right max rpm but it would be crazy to operate it at full power.  The boat reaches hull speed before full power.  In full power the stern is well down and the bow is well up... basically exceeding hull speed and sinking the boat.  This is ideal for me as it will give the power needed when have head seas.  1800 to 2000 is real nice.  I really like the motor.  It is simple to work on and every thing is easy to get to.  I dont like the stock oil filter attachment because oil will be hard to contain when removing it so I will get a remote for it.  Total cost of motor and gear and other needed items was 13,500.  I did everything myself.

4
General Discussion / Square Footage of CSY 44 WO
« on: July 23, 2014, 11:35:51 AM »
Only two? --   B)

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Hull and Rig / Rub rail construction and repair?
« on: July 14, 2014, 09:10:19 AM »
I agree that it your situation sounds mostly cosmetic.  Here are a few things to consider going forward -- again this is from seeing, over the years, various ways to address this situation.  If you decide to inject a penetrating epoxy, which will stop the rot and depending on the type of resin used, displace the water (so the manufacturer claims!), IT will also make the strike/rub rail ROCK hard.  These rails give a little and crush should to have a really hard impact.  I believe this will help preserve the hull in such a case.  

As far as the wet wood is concerned, I read a book on "wooden boats" ONCE :) and learned that a trick they use to reduce or prevent wet wood is to paint it a dark color which in turn make it hot which claims to keep the wood dry.  

Along these lines I have seen several people caulk the screws holding the bronze onto the boat.  This not only keeps the water out (until the seal breaks down which it most certainly will) it also keeps the water in.  I believe this leads to rotting wood and those bubbles which appear on some boats.  Instead of caulking I painted the green all the way onto the rub rail so that the top surface is dark green.  It gets hot but I have to problems with bubbles or rot.

6
Hull and Rig / Bow Spirit
« on: June 19, 2014, 08:22:31 PM »
Hi Paul, this is Paul from Peter Rabbit -- 44 WO.  I purchased a roller system for the asymmetrical.  Ran into the same issues on where to attach the system and still provide good clearances, sail handling, etc.  I looked at several retractable bow poles like they use on the go fast racing sail boats.  In the end I did not like any of the options because for me it because just one more system and complication.  It also would be in the way when working the fore-deck.  I came across my solution to the issue when trying to find a way to fit a Manson Supreme 80.  It would not go through the 1 inch bar stock welded to our anchor platform.  Here is what I am doing, which was hard to start because, well, I don't like cutting anything on the boat.  I cut off the curved front of that bar and then purchased 1 1/4 SS316L tubing with a wall thickness to yield a 1 inch ID.  I then got two 90 heavy duty rail fittings and welded that to the 1 1/4 tubing and welded in the cut off curved bar stock to the other ends.  The other side of 90 fitting will be welded to the bar stock stubs.  I cut off the 1 1/4 tubing to a length that puts the curved part above the lower bar on our bow rail but inside the bow rail.  A pad eye will be welded to the top of the curved bar stock which will be used for attaching the sail rig.  It might be a bit hard to picture what I am explaining but it is easy to fab.  I will take a picture this weekend and post it so it is more clear.  I still have a few support tubes to fab and weld to ensure the entire system is rigid but what I have done so far will give you the idea.

This setup allows the large gangly anchor to fit and be retrieved and deployed at easy while retaining a strong storage spot all at the same time providing an attachment point for my asymmetrical roller system.  Nothing has to be extended, managed, or removed.  It is part of the boat.

Hope this helps with your research.

7
Hull and Rig / Rub rail construction and repair?
« on: June 19, 2014, 08:02:40 PM »
Hi, the rub rails have a wood core.  The wood is either teak or pine depending on when constructed.  I have seen both.  Prolonged wet will result in rot.  No need to worry about the hull.  The hull to deck joint is not behind the rub rails it is under your teak cap rails.  The rub rails are actually glassed onto the hull sides (top sides).  I have seen one CSY cut them off completely and fair out the surface and paint.  If you want to fix, remove the bronze and use a circular saw and cut and remove the fiberglass surface that is under the bronze.  This will expose the core and you can pull, pry, yank, and wonder why you started the project to remove the old wood.  Then simply cut a piece of wood to fit and coat it with resin and insert.  Then the real fun starts.  Re-glassing the removed fiberglass surface and repainting.  That is all there is to it!

Paul Barbour
Peter Rabbit WO 44

8
Engines and Drive Train / Fuel Consumption of 44 WO with Perkins 4-154
« on: August 16, 2013, 10:20:21 AM »
Hi Warren,

I found your comment about the installed angle of the engine will also, in addtion to the v-drive gears, increase fuel consumption interesting and timely for me. I am reading your post correctly?  If so I am very interested in understanding the reason engine angle install will effect fuel burn since I am considering installing the new engine with the straight gear or an 8% down angle gear (not a v-drive).  Velvet Drive tells me the power loss between the two types of gears is about the same because the straight gear uses a planetary gear while the 8% down angle uses several gears to get the 8% down angle.

What causes the engine install angle to increase fuel burn?  Knowing this might help be make a final decision.

Thanks Paul

9
Engines and Drive Train / Fuel Consumption of 44 WO with Perkins 4-154
« on: August 14, 2013, 09:44:58 AM »
Hi Bill,

When you have your injectors serviced here is something to keep in mind that happened to me.  The Perkins service company in Tampa that did the work for me did not service MY injectors.  They exchanged them for some already done.  While this seems normal and ok I found that once I installed them I found out that the return line Banjo bolt (think that is what it is called) would not screw in.  This was because the injectors were not the same.  They spec’d for fuel delivery the same but must have been a different model or something.  To add insult to the injury, I did not write down the identify numbers of my injectors so I got the run around that I must be wrong and nothing was done (the company is a big outfit in Tampa -- not some corner diesel fix it shop).  Changing the banjo bolt to one that would screw in did not work because it was not configured to work with my return line.  So I now did not have my original injectors and the installed ones would not work with the return line.  I guess I could have tried to find a return line that worked but opted instead to have the banjo bolt machine shop modified.

Bottom line, write down your injector ID # and ensure the shop knows you want YOURS back.

Paul

10
Engines and Drive Train / New Cummins Install
« on: August 09, 2013, 11:24:12 AM »
Engine replacment is moving along.

11
Engines and Drive Train / Fuel Consumption of 44 WO with Perkins 4-154
« on: August 09, 2013, 11:16:42 AM »
This is such a timely post for me.

12
Underway / Windward performance
« on: August 09, 2013, 11:04:03 AM »
Hi Ron,

Interesting you also mention fuel consumption/engine power torque,-ratios-prop specs.  We are in the process of replacing the 4-154.  Won’t get into that much here as that belongs more in the engine section but lots to consider when replacing an engine with something other than what it came with.  All the things you mention are the key points to consider.

TAD has marinized a Cummings b3.3 a 65hp normal aspirated engine.  The specs are a bit different in that it is lower RPM, 2600 vs 3000.  Rick Flemming, as well as another CSY owner, has installed the same motor and he and I have spoken about underway performance and fuel burn. 

Needless to say but will anyway, we are NOT comparing apples to apples.  The 4-154 I am sure no longer produces its rated 62hp.  What is its max hp now?   It would be an uninformed guess but no doubt less. 

Rick reports 6.5kkts using the stock prop at 1600 to 1700 rpm.  The gear box is same brand and model just with a 2.57:1 which almost matches’ shaft revolutions to the 2.91:1. 

My calculations indicate at max 2600 rpm I will be losing 19rpm per min or about 1 ever 3 seconds.  This works out to about 1.8% loss.  They make a 2.50:1 in a new series with an 8 degree down angle which calculates out to about 10 rpm MORE but this will require making changes to the engine beds. 

I believe, maybe wrongly, that these differences are so small that it won’t be noticed particularly since I will be comparing to an engine that has many hours on it and is highly likely producing less power at a given % of throttle .  Yes my old 4-154 runs great, starts fast, but it is old and has not been rebuilt so apples to oranges.

Rick's reported fuel burn at the 1700 rpm range is less than 1 gal per hour.  This is approximately equal to running the old engine at 2000 rpm which for me burned about 1.1 gph.  So it appears that we can gain speed and burn less fuel.  Contribute that to newer tech engineering and engine eff.  Rick, while his engine was out had new tanks made but modified the shape by making the bottom a bit wider increasing his tank capacity.   I don’t remember how much but with this engine he has told me he going much longer than our stock setup will allow.

More as the install goes along.  Got to finish this last project so can make the final break away. 

Take care...

13
Hull and Rig / furling stay sail with boom, anyone?
« on: August 09, 2013, 10:23:54 AM »
Rick Flemming has done this.

14
Underway / Windward performance
« on: July 23, 2013, 03:30:00 PM »
I have found the stay sail useful, not in Tampa Bay but in the Gulf and Ocean for both tight upwind and downwind when.  One such down wind was in 25kts, in the Gulf, using just the main and the stay sail.  Using just the main slowed the boat and made for a very comfortable ride.  The stay sail was sheeted tight on the center line.  This acted like a break when the boat would try to roll up in a gust.  The wind would hit that flat surface and push it back down.  I learnt this trick from Tom Service who told me how he did this very thing while going around the world.  The stay sail on Peter Rabbit is also the heaviest sail on the boat.  It is last down and we fly in it in anything.

Keel, we have the 6.5 and I believe it helps on most points of sail.  However, I have frds that have the shorter draft and go miles and miles in the Ocean without a issue.  So while deep draft owners believe it is better, shorter draft does not seem to be stopping anyone.

15
Swap Meet / Peter Rabbit\'s 4-154 for sale
« on: July 18, 2013, 09:00:19 PM »
Hi John

Thank you for the information and your positive experience is good news.

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